No

lmailander1, August 21, 2005; 9:59 PM

In the U.S. they would be considered as Bootlegs.

hammon, August 21, 2005; 11:48 PM

Yes, they are bootlegs -- reguardless of the country they are in.

Countless U.S. scores that are unreleased, or expanded, are on hte label -- BUT, no liscensing and legallities were ever taken care of. These are not official.
But since, as often times is, labels like this are located in a country besides the USA, where it's okay to sell that and even bring it to a pressing plant, they fool people into thinking they are real.

Bootlegs. Period.

tharpdevenport, August 22, 2005; 1:30 AM

If you live in Europe go ahead and buy, they are only considered as bootlegs in US. They are quality pressed CDs (not CDRs) with notes and pukker covers and track listings. I have encountered them on my travels (in Europe) and have bought a number of them. US folk are reluctant to buy them, but in Europe you will find that you can easily sell it on, should you wish to do so.

TheSaint.786, August 22, 2005; 2:41 AM

The Tsunami CD's have copy rights. Check on the CD itself.

lmailander1, August 22, 2005; 3:19 PM

I really thought this discussion was over a long time ago ! I'm sick and tired of hearing that these german CDs were bootlegs ! THEY ARE NOT ! THEY ARE 100% NO BOOTLEGS ! They are legally pressed but under a different copyright agreement than is the US agreement. They are not to be sold in USA like today region 1 DVDs are not to be sold in Europe or Japan.
For more information I recommend the excellent article printed in Soundtrack! magazine of december 1996 (as you see this discussion now lasts for nearly 10 years!) Vol.15 n°60 by Istvàn Rusz dealing in depth with this subject. I just take some quotes out of it:
- "Are we seriously expected to believe that the German government, for over two years (then back in 1996) would just turn a blind eye to Cd bootlegging on that scale? In fact some of the Tsunami albums were lucky enough to win the "Preis der deutschen Schallplatten Kritik" (a quarterly award handed out by german music critics), an honor not bestowed upon bootlegs - even in Germany."
- "If all the titles released by Tsunami, Delphi et al. were bootlegs, then why did the American record companies find it necessary to coerce the German government into entering a new copyright agreement (....) Was it to make them even more illegal?"
- "...why didn't the European offices of the copyright holders simply sue them out of existence? The answer is that they couldn't because the labels were not doing anything illegal that they could be sued for. The truth is there were no reason to sue them, because these labels paid GEMA (the German equivalent of ASCAP/BMI) on every single CD pressed, unlike American bootleggers who do not pay a dime to anyone."

birnam, August 22, 2005; 9:40 PM

My hat is off to birnam for his informative input as I did not want to delve into the legality of it as my knowledge is limited. However, birnam's knowledge is far greater and I am pleased to read his lengthy input. As for Lukas Kendall at FSM, I have yet to hear anyone say a good word about him. He seems to have a view on everything film music related, and if perhaps, he had spoken to anyone in Europe, but Germany in particular, perhaps he may have changed his views. But LK does not do that, his restrictive message boards are not as open and as informative or as easy going as this.
I remember he had a long running fued on the message board (and off it) at Supercollector on a simple matter! Besides, how many of his Ltd. editions are sold out since he's been going as opposed to say, Varese or Intrada.

TheSaint.786, August 23, 2005; 2:19 AM

Sure they can't allow trading Tsunami and SoundtrackFactory at FSM (and I would bet Harkit as well) via the U.S. message board because that would be trouble for them. But you can't blame a CD to be a bootleg for that.

You can't blame a CD to be a bootleg when it doesn't have the MGM lion logo or Warner logo or whatever. You also won't find that on Sony/Legacy recordings for example.

Whig: I believe most of the FSM's didn't sell out yet because there are not too many people who care for great scores from old and unknown movies. They buy Poseidon Adventure but won't bother to get Ace Eli and the Rodger of the Skies.
Another possibility is that they don't have money to buy them all (like me). There are just 23 Intrada cd's, just 40 Varese club and about 120 FSM !

42zaphod, August 23, 2005; 4:32 AM

hooraaaaaaay for Tsunami. Thanks to that label, I have the original recordings of Captain Blood, The Sea Hawk, and the Adventures of Robin Hood. NO ONE sounds like the original of these.

dspin24358, August 31, 2005; 2:34 PM

In a word, Yes, Tsunami releases are bootlegs.
Tsunami has released dozens of CD's featuring material that they have NOT LICENSED. They have obtained recordings from individuals who either had them in their collection or, in many cases, actually stole them from the studios or archives. In many other cases they have copied previously released editions (this is also now being done by a company called MEMBRAN).

Tsunami (and Membran) rely on copyright law in Germany which supposedly makes all this music in public domain. But that does NOT cover the fact that the recordings themselves are either stolen or unauthorized.





darren.allison1, September 28, 2005; 7:53 PM