I think that Williams was inspired by a belgium composer and the music was composed in 1950.
I'll try to get a grip on the Lp or some infos about the composer.

tomzecat-bis, September 5, 2006; 12:55 AM

tyuan....
if you consider this a plague!!!please.....

riccardo.rocchi4, September 5, 2006; 12:59 AM

fine.. not only he stole from korngold but now from Puccini as well???


Shame on him!

petrkocanda, September 5, 2006; 2:30 PM

Giaccomo Korngold!!

I am trashing right now all my Johnny CDs.

falcsanz, September 5, 2006; 4:05 PM

I wouldn't concider that "plagiation" or rip-off, but a homage more like. It takes the original suite to a new direction, transforming it into something completely different.
--
- necrophilissimo :: www.soundtracknotes.cjb.net -

necrophilissimo, September 5, 2006; 5:36 PM

I'm afraid it's a plague guys.
This is not the first time I discover that one of my favourite music is not original but a plague... ;__;

I will not trash my John Williams collection, but I have discovered that star wars theme is not 100% by Williams...




tyuan74, September 5, 2006; 9:34 PM

Who cares? I know that I don’t. Music does not have to be original to be enjoyable! Call me pessimistic but can anything be original these days?

robin.haggett, September 6, 2006; 7:12 PM

I think there is still room for originality..but also sometimes with SO much music out there it might be tough not to compose something that sounds similar but not exact. My favorite example of similar but not same:
Star Trek 6- The Undiscovered Country- opening title
vs.
Holst's the Planets: Mars
Give it a try! :)

How about composers who actually use "pieces" of their work in one movie on another??
Example:
Star Trek 2- The Wrath of Khan : Mutara Nebula battle vs. Cocoon : The Chase and Die Hard : this one's with me. Hee Hee! Ah well, can't get enough of a good thing..

As for Mr. Williams- he composed SIX of the finest scores ever written for science fiction..if he borrowed a little..so what? They still are what they are. Well done John! I will still happily listen to my Star Wars even if everyone else boycotts.

Kim
emt8134@aol.com

emt8134, September 7, 2006; 12:29 AM

This is a neat discovery! I must hear the extract in its own proper context.

The original Star Wars score is sprinkled edge-to-edge with the ashes of dead composers. Not to the same degree of transparency as "The Right Stuff", maybe, but it's there.

Kim- one doesn't need even to go outside Star Wars (IV) to find Holst's influence! Check out the music directly after the main title. It's labelled "Blockade Runner", sure, but we all know it's Darth Vader (Bringer of War)'s original theme.

It's well-known among people besides score geeks that the film was heavily temp-tracked with, among other things, The Planets. Lucas INTENDED to use non-original music, and in the end did not only for budgetary reasons. Hurrah for capitalism!

zuvqwyx3, September 7, 2006; 1:12 AM

well said Kim on your last statement, I could not agree more!

robin.haggett, September 7, 2006; 1:22 AM

Listen again! This is nonsense.
The Star Wars melody consists of 16 Notes, and only the first 5
are the same. And only the melody, the rest isn't even close.
Don't want to get too much into details. :-)
Try to sue him, you wouldn't have a chance.

wolf.sven, September 8, 2006; 2:45 AM

This is not a plague.
If you pay attention, Williams stole other things, that are more important than just write a melody.
Listen Wagner instrumentations, and you will see how little he create of the SW score.Or any Verdi's fanfares.Or Holst's planets.

Write a 16 notes melody can be done by any moron.But to create a good orchestation, is not for anyone.And most of the times, some other person do the orchestations in the scores (not that williams do this, but since he just steal things from other composers orchestations, its almost the same)

P.D. If you listen the music of Episode 6, when joda dies, you hear a 2 chord progression, that is repited.
Rachmaninov has a piano concert that starts with the exact same chord progression (not just the notes.Its 100% exactly like the concerto).Its an example of your idea about plague.But 2 seconds is not just a plague.But I think in this case, Williams just stole the exact progression orchestation to use it in that part.

Check the link to hear it (the first 2 chords, and the repeat it, you will remember the joda's death scene)

http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninov-Piano-Concertos-Nos-4/dp/B00000427L/sr=8-1/qid=1157954991/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6863832-6830261?ie=UTF8&s=music

Piano Concerto No. 2 in C Minor, Op.18: II Adagio sostenuto

nicolas28, September 11, 2006; 10:13 AM