No one ever said that release was the COMPLETE score, you know.

kriegerg69, August 17, 2007; 2:59 AM

I know, but still, don't you think they could add a little more and not just leave the sessoin tapes lying around so that in 2025 they finally release a complete score?

scorelover, August 17, 2007; 11:51 AM

All sorts of issues are involved as far as "releasing more" of the original recording tracks....there's another discussion going on somewhere down the board on that very subject. Some sort of music rights/artist rights or bullcrap like that.

I'd almost certainly bet there's a complete MASK score floating around sharities, and done from the DVD audio tracks (as we've described in two other threads here about that ripping-from-DVD subject).

kriegerg69, August 17, 2007; 12:28 PM

You are absolutely right, but you are thinking like a fan, and not like a producer...
I do not belive that I know all the truth, but there are several reasons why an album comes out incomplete. The principal is that for every minute of score the label company must pay to each and everyone of the orchestra players. Sometimes the orchestas are big and the label company has to limit the minutes (let say to 35-40), otherwise the amount to pay will be very high and will not be recovered with the sales of the album. Then logically, most composers prefer to ansamble an album with 1/3 of his music, than not having an album at all.
A second reason is that unfortunately score albums do not sell as many copies as the pop/songs, because they are bought by collectors only. And now with the itunes and downloads, this is getting worst. This is also another reason of why the rules of re-using music for albums have changed resently in the US, and also why a score recorded in another country (outside US, where these rules do not exist) has a much bigger chance to be issued on album than a score recorded under the hollywood union rules. For the second case you need the movie to be a big success in theatres, so to be sure that many people will buy the album (the arround 20.000 score only hard fans worldwide do not count as a big market for big companies). Think about "Transformers", a box office success with a great score music, but if you know where to find the score only album, please let us all know...
On the other hand you are right about the complete album re-editions as well, but again, you must think that actually we are talking about business here. Nobody is making albums, because wants to be nice with collectors, but because wants to make some bucks. So, (and here I go again) you will have in stores the single album, then an expanded one, then a complete set, then the ultimate edition, and so on at nauseam, all of them made for you to buy them. And if you really like some particular score and you are a collector, you will have to sell your soul and buy each one of them. This is like a psychological business! Unfair? Hell, you are right!!

iordanman, August 17, 2007; 6:25 PM

"...The principal is that for every minute of score the label company must pay to each and everyone of the orchestra players. Sometimes the orchestas are big and the label company has to limit the minutes (let say to 35-40), otherwise the amount to pay will be very high and will not be recovered with the sales of the album..."

I don't mean to sound rude... but what is this about musicians getting paid for every minute of music and where is it written?

Is this true? It sounds funny.

Musicians in general don't get paid that much.

serifiot, August 18, 2007; 3:51 PM

You can check out Film Score Monthly Vol.3 No.8, page 9, there is a large article with comments by Robert Townson (and later a response by the President of the Recording Musicians Association in Vol.4 No.2) where is written:

"The reason why Varese releases many new scores at only 30 min. is because those scores were recorded in Los Angeles with union orchestras, and in order to release the music on CD, the musicians need to be paid a percentage of their salaries all over again. This came about many decades ago as a way of protecting working musicians who practice their instruments for many years to become as good as they are. It was to prevent producers for saying: instead of hiring all of you guys to play every week on our live show, we're just going to use the recordings you made last week and pay you nothing, oh and the same thing for the next 26 weeks too..."

And also:
"Much of the blame of the lack of of more lengthly releases was placed on the musicians union for excessive re-use fees"... "Around ten years ago the musicians union did change their rules to allow for a percentage payment of the re-use fee. To quote from the AFM Recording Agreement Summary for Sound Track Albums:
For sound track albums released in conjuction with a motion picture:
1. 50% of Phonograph scale wages at the time the record is released.
2. An adittional 50% of Phonograph scale wages upon sales excess of 50.000 records.
3. An additional 20% of phonograph scale wages upon sales in excess of 100.000 records."

I also said that these rules are for the recordings made in the US and do not aply to recordings made in other countries. But most of the hollywood scores are in fact recorded in Hollywood. So, I also said that some time ago these rules have changed a few.
For example, there is also an agreement to allow for payment of only 25% of the total fee for less than 25.000 units of a score recorded under the union's new low budged film agreement, itself a lower wage for films whose total budgets are less than arround $15 million.
They have made changes on this matter too for labels that issue up to 3000 records. Making only 3000 they pay very low fees, or sometimes no fees at all. Have you noticed that all the smaller labels edit every new album as a limited edition only?
Also, there is a relatively new agreement of reduced fees for listing all the players on an album. By listing all the names it is considered a promotional act to the performers, and for this they reduce the re-use fee. Have you noticed that now the labels list the cmplete orchestra names if recorded in LA? This you can not find in older albums...


iordanman, August 20, 2007; 11:50 AM

Very complicated!

Hypothetically...

If I was whoever is up there passing these regulations, I would keep things simple and suggest musicians to be paid a negotiable daily salary as long as they are employed and are needed to finish the recording sessions and a percentage of the sales from the perspective soundtrack album as long as the album is in print.

BUT YOU ARE NOT BLANCHE YOU ARE NOT!...

I know, I know...

;- )

serifiot, August 20, 2007; 7:42 PM