What makes you think, "The FortyTwo Trading Company" is Perseverance?

And what is a costumer? A customer in disguise? ;-)))))


PS: Buy-It-Now for more than 200 US$ > 120143285582

coma, August 22, 2007; 11:21 AM

the Forty Two IS the Perseverance direct shop. It's written also in Perseverance Website!!

I have made a typing error, the correct word is "consumers"!

tyuan74, August 22, 2007; 11:31 AM

Ok, but why are you complaining about a repressing? They're offering a single copy.

coma, August 22, 2007; 11:42 AM

let see in the future....


tyuan74, August 22, 2007; 12:39 PM

I can partly see tyuan's point of view, Perseverance was debating whether to release more copies to prevent a high price war on ebay, after deliberating they decide not to repress and then list a CD which goes for $122. Not as high as the current buy it now price of $204 one person is offering but it does seem a bit unfair to collectors...

neilandrewdalby, August 22, 2007; 1:36 PM

I fully agree!
Imagine if Intrada or Varese would have sold the last copy of Inchon 2CD or Predator for $200
Even for 1 single copy this is unfair

dionyssios, August 22, 2007; 1:46 PM

I could see the point if they'd listed ten or twenty copies. And does anyone remember the big
hooray when suddenly some long OOP rarities turned up on the shelves of some labels?
Capricorne One anyone? Or Colosseum offering Chinatown and Airport some months ago?

I can't remember anyone complaining when these were sold - at prices matching the
approximate market value or appeared up for auction. So why the yelling here? No one's
forced to bid.
All the hassle is complete hypocrisy.

coma, August 22, 2007; 3:53 PM

I agree with you, tyuan.

I for my part was already deterred from Perseverance when they originally decided against a repressing. However, back then I thought they decided so in order to appease threats of die-hard collectors who buy limited editions for limitation's sake. I thought they decided against a repressing because collectors-for-collecting's-sake were economically more important to them than people who love movie scores.

But now I would agree that maybe other factors played a role as well.

Just glad I was never into this soundtrack.

Urs

handstand, August 22, 2007; 3:11 PM

Don't jump to conclusions...


They might have kept some copies to sell on eBay; I imagine PR doesn't make a lot of money.

OR

This might be "run off". Each time discs are pressed, extras are made; either by accident, or on purpose so if someone's gets lost/stolen/broken or has an error, they have a replacement to give.

tharpdevenport, August 22, 2007; 10:57 PM

I don't think that there has been a "repressing". Mr. Esterhammer may simply have had some leftover copies and decided to auction them off on eBay. Perhaps they recently discovered a batch of KICKBOXER CDs that was previously lost in the warehouse, or just had a couple of "office copies" that were sitting around collecting dust. It makes more sense for them to to list the CDs at auction rather than make the CD suddenly available again on their site, an act which might even have caused more controversy than the action in question. Then again, I'm trying to be rational and coming from the perspective of someone that was able to secure a copy during the initial offering, so I cannot completely empathize with the frustration of those who regrettably missed out on this release, although I must admit that the whole thing seems a bit shady. Has Varese Sarabande or Intrada ever listed CDs on eBay that had previously been declared "SOLD OUT"? I highly doubt it.

American.Nightmare, August 23, 2007; 4:07 AM

Why sell their cds at these high prices?
If perserverance need money, well, print other copies and sell them at the right price!

Instead Perseverance prefers to sell copies with a price 5 times higher......
We are talking about an EDITOR that sells HIS OWN PRODUCTS at a crazy price, instead of selling his product normally.....

I hope that Intrada, Lalaland, Gigitmovies, Varese and all the other labels will not do the same in the future....



tyuan74, August 23, 2007; 7:32 AM

What is "normal" tyuan? And keep in mind, that these "crazy prices" are due to collectors,
willing to pay them. Don't blame the label for it.

coma, August 23, 2007; 9:20 AM

Yes, please don't blame the label.
They first decided to print 500 copies, which sold out pretty quickly, then asked us (collectors and music lovers) if it might be a good idea to repress some. They finally decided not to do it. So, I also think they might have had a few "leftovers" and just took a decision to sell these copies for collectors on ebay and not repress their first initial batch of 500 copies.
I think that they made the right choice.
Now, if someone missed buying KICKBOXER at the first (and right) place, well now you have your chance to buy it (more expensive I agree), but it's the "law of limited edition CDs"... why do you think limited editions exist and become sometimes so incredibely expensive and rare?
They made a choice of printing only 500 copies of this title. That was their choice, so you could only blame the fact that it wasn't enough to begin with... not the fact that they are selling some leftovers CDs (in this case, only ONE!) on ebay for a somehow pretty high price (I agree with that)...

I know it may be hard to understand and I would also be dissapointed or sad if I couldn't buy my copy in time... but we have to play the rule: limited edition CDs are not supposed to last forever and we can't always be at the right place at the right time... sadly :-/

davegaumann, August 23, 2007; 10:34 AM

Chances are that it was left over copies or perhaps one returned/sold back to Perseverance Records. If you look at current listings they seem to be selling a whole variation of items, and not just Perseverance Releases...chances are the CD will be re-released again in the near future with Stan Bush and other songs and all...with the fast sell out of the previous release they would be crazy not to...

neilandrewdalby, August 23, 2007; 12:14 PM

This is the bid history:
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&;item=330154159643
(copy&paste it)
or type this: 330154159643 ... and then go to "History"

Who told you it was listed for more than 90 usd??? it seems the item started somewhere around 20 usd...

davegaumann, August 23, 2007; 12:49 PM

Ok, ok.
As You like it, everybody think what You want about that...
In my humble opinion is not a good way to do for a label...


tyuan74, August 23, 2007; 12:53 PM

I think he meant it was at $90 at the time of starting this post...

neilandrewdalby, August 23, 2007; 5:07 PM

>Has Varese Sarabande or Intrada ever listed CDs on eBay that had previously been declared "SOLD OUT"? I highly doubt it.

Please stop moaning. Robin has a VERY small label which has been built up entirely independently out of his office. Comparing him to Varese Sarabande etc, is idiotic and unfair.

And for your information there are no "extra copies" lying around. There are 500 and that's it! He kept a few copies to sell once the product was sold out. If he were to sell them for $20 each they would've been bought up by opportunists and - sold for around $100 on ebay.com Maybe you should try starting your own label if you think it's that easy and stop bitching.

master_score, August 23, 2007; 5:54 PM

...and who are you, his personal secretary or something?

American.Nightmare, August 23, 2007; 8:24 PM

If anyone is actually looking for a sealed copy of Kickboxer, I have one I'd be willing to trade for something of equally rare value. So far the offers I've gotten are pretty feeble. I could always put this on eBay and charge $100 for it, but I'd rather trade it for something I really want that's hard for me to get.

piano632, August 24, 2007; 12:43 AM

This coud be nit-picking but (and keep in mind my previous comments before i am slated, lol)

>There are 500 and that's it! He kept a few copies to sell once the product was sold out...

So technically by keeping a few copies it did'nt sell out a full 500? Or if it did there must have been more than 500 right?

neilandrewdalby, August 24, 2007; 5:34 AM

Selling one copy (possibly a left over, returned item, promo, or what ever) really isn't that big of deal...except when it's the original label selling it that way.

The only reason I say this is that so many attack BuySoundtrax when they do it. Yet if Perseverance does it, many are saying, hey it's OK...it's only one. Don't get me wrong, I will not buy CDs from BuySoundtrax due to their shady practices.

Even if no other copy of KICKBOXER is sold by Perseverance does it make it right to do this? Sure everyone wants to make money, but I find this episode "bad form" and that would go with any label.

I have NEVER seen Intrada do this. I guess some record labels have ethics. :)

hammon, August 24, 2007; 12:48 PM

I' m returning from eBay just now... after read this discussion...

I have only one question: WHO of these "Sirs" is selling a SEALED copy of Kickboxer on eBay NOW? Mmmm?

Check, check! Please just CHECK!!

Speculators.... PUAH!!! FUCK OFF!!! You won' t have my money.


BOOTLEGS FOREVER!!!!

vaff, August 25, 2007; 9:02 PM

wtf are you ranting about?

American.Nightmare, August 25, 2007; 9:22 PM

I repeat: check CAREFULLY the fucking eBay NOW...

WHO is here complaining because Perseverance is "not honest" but - at the same time - sells a sealed copy of the mentioned cd for a lot of money?
No no: here someone is afraid just for HIS business.

Then are the same speculators reporting the bootleg sellers on eBay. Shame!

vaff, August 26, 2007; 7:26 AM

Bye the way, I don't see why Perseverance wouldn't want to sell one copy of Kickboxer on ebay... they listed their price at 20 usd (same as if you have bought it from their website)... I don't think they wanted to make money on this "extra" CD... common' people! They just had an "extra" CD and just wished to sell it to someone who didn't already have it! That's it.
They pressed 500 copies and had maybe one CD laying around and I think it was best to put it on ebay than just putting it on their website and saying: "hey everyone! We have one left copy of Kickboxer! The first one to write us will get it for 20 bucks! Ahahah"... I totally understand them!

Oh well. ;-)

Hehehe, I also checked ebay at the same moment ahahah, I neither can't believe it! That's really hypocrite! Anyway... :-/

davegaumann, August 27, 2007; 8:24 AM

Hey guys!

This is what Rob (Perseverance's boss) told me when I asked him this, by mail, the other day:

"Thanks for the heads up. I had a couple of copies of Kickboxer lying around and thought I would give somebody a chance to purchase it. To make it fair I decided to put it on eBay so everyone would have a crack at it. I wasn't expecting to make huge amounts of money, that's why I listed it at $19.99. I am not planning on making exorbitant gains by speculating on eBay collectors, just thought I would help somebody get their hands on a copy. How much they bid is up to them. I didn't tell ANYONE to bid this high. I myself would never pay this much for a CD."

Now, you have your answers! ;-)
(Please, don't blame him for not posting his reply directly on SC. He wasn't aware of this topic, until I asked him why he was selling Kickboxer on ebay. I don't know Rob that personnaly, but he is a nice guy with whom I always had nice "mails communication") :-)

Hope it helps...
Take care!
David


davegaumann, August 31, 2007; 7:37 AM

Having dealt with Rob in the past, including getting composer autographed copies of my fav perseverance soundtracks from him, he is not a ebay money maker but i still stand by comment i originally made to the original posters comment that not many other labels would do this. However Rob is right about prices, he listed the CD at the sale price from his company, peoples bids are not controlled by him. Maybe he'll give the procedes to charity or towards a new release but i think this topic may have ran its course now...

neilandrewdalby, September 6, 2007; 12:27 PM