I must say I agree with you only to the extent that Goldsmith has produced some scores in the 80s that were quite poor, but so does any other composer in any given period of his life. As for having an average run in the 80s, how about OUTLAND (81) RAGGEDY MAN (81) (I know of one great cue, would love to hear the rest..), POLTERGEIST (82) (one of my all time favourite), TWILIGHT ZONE, UNDER FIRE (83), LEGEND (85)(another all-time favourite), THE BURBS (89), RUSSIA HOUSE (90) ?

If one counts BABY in that lot (and I understand you don't), I'd say Goldsmith didn't do too badly in the eighties.

And I do love Williams too.

fireatheart, April 21, 2008; 8:17 AM

I am actually one of those few who like exactly that Goldsmith era that even his most die hard fans seem to feel indifferent about, to say the least - the mid- to late 1980s. Given I've never been into marches, I'm not too fond of his military and action works and instead prefer Goldsmith scores like RUSSIA HOUSE/ALIEN NATION, RENT-A-COP and PAPILLON. However, I also like PLANET OF THE APES whose artistic merit is almost impossible to overlook. On the other hand, being the 'guilty pleasure' kind of Goldsmith fan, I prefer ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF THE APES over the original. ;-)

P.S.: Now that I re-read the previous post, I admire UNDER FIRE as well, of course. :-)

handstand, April 21, 2008; 8:53 AM

I love Psycho II, Rent-A-Cop and Link from th '80s, but I'm more into his '70s scores (like Alien, Planet of The Apes or Coma, but honestly I thought that Logan's Run was terrible) and '90s scores (although in the '90s, he also did some terribly average scores like Powder, but also masterworks like Basic Instinct or The Haunting).

philkws, April 22, 2008; 8:19 AM

There is no need to be angry...

I like THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, but I prefer EXPLORERS. I love LIONHEART, but I prefer UNDER FIRE. But if I had to choose my favourite period in Goldsmith's career, I'd say that the 60's and 70's were his best and most creative years. All in all, I think he composed some really ejoyable stuff during the 80's, and more than half dozen masterpieces. But, what are we talking about? Jerry Goldsmith! He was a genius. Without a doubt, one of the greatest composers who worked in motion pictures. All his scores deserve, at least, a minimmum attention. No one is bad. They run from interesting to extraordinary. Everyone fits perfectly to the movies they were composed for. BABY is an awful motion picture, and its score is the only thing that makes bearable watching it. It's good movie music. Not the best, but no one can say it's not good. Elmer Bernstein said it once: "Jerry Goldsmith never composed a bad score". And he was right. I think one of Goldsmith's best soundtracks was for PLANET OF THE APES. However, I know there are many people that don't like it. Other of my all time favourite Goldsmiths are THE OTHER, THE TRAVELING EXECUTIONER, ACE ELI AND RODGER OF THE SKIES... I know they aren't among his most popular scores, but for whatever reason I love them. So, what's the matter if someone of you don't like BABY, and prefer THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS? Enjoy one or another, but enjoy the music and don't be angry.

angeldibujo, April 21, 2008; 9:19 AM

Dirk, I have many Jerry Goldsmith soundtracks and I agree with you, Baby isn't special. There are a lot of much better scores, even from year 1985 I like Legend, Rambo II or King Solomon's Mines much more than Baby. But I don't agree with you that Baby hasn't warm and intelligent melodies, there are some.
Yes and Die Hard is very boring. IMHO, of course.:-))

soundtrack, April 21, 2008; 10:00 AM

Hi, I agree with 'soundtrack', Baby isn't special but it has some nice and warm melodies. I like it but it wil never be one of my favorite Goldsmith scores.
It is all matter of taste. Like Dirk I also don't understand why people would get so angry when you say you think a famous (or overhyped) score isn't that special.
And like Dirk I also sold my Die Hard copy (for a very nice price indeed). Also sold Runway and Alien Nation fot that matter. Goldsmith is my favorote composer but I'm not a completist and I think these all-electronic scores are even less special than Baby.


erikvantholt, April 21, 2008; 2:33 PM

dirk.j.jansen:

Are you selling it? And how much?

tharpdevenport, April 21, 2008; 2:50 PM

Dirk clearly said that he will NOT sell it (see above).

handstand, April 21, 2008; 2:56 PM

@tharpdevenport. What are you willing to offer?

peter-anselm, April 21, 2008; 3:18 PM

Yes Williams is good, but he almost always approaches a film in exactly the same way. He fits his style of music to the film. You can instantly recognise that it is him. Goldsmith at least tried to vary his style of composition to fit the film. Under Fire, for example, he used pipes and ethnic instruments. If Williams had done the score he would have no doubt used the full on orchestra approach.

darryl.low, April 21, 2008; 4:34 PM

@Dirk

well this time I accept your critical thought because you stated this one this time in another form. And I understand your point of view.

Your first criticism was like "what's about the Baby-hype... what?.. sold out?... how can that be.. this score is no beauty".
Well, this just will make people a little bit angry.

anyway, I like the score, it's great... not WOW, but just fun to listen to.
And in the end it's just a matter of taste. Some people grew up with this movie and they like the score much more than anything else from Goldsmith... who knows.

Criticism is ok if you write them properly. ;)

1701, April 21, 2008; 4:45 PM

There are no 'bad' JG film scores... just 'different sounding' JG film scores... OKAY? ;- )

Am I trying to defend or justify the unjustifiable?

No... that is how I perceive JG film music.

Certainly not every day is Jerry Goldsmith day but whenever I decide to listen to the maesto, I LISTEN... yes, listen to the maestro with an open mind.

BTW, I have not seen anyone mention "Coma"... that is a great score and a score that works so well in the movie.

"Magic" is another... "A Patch Of Blue", another.

The JG list is long.

His music from the original Twilight Zone episode "The Invaders" starring Agnes Moorehead... oustanding fot its time and still fresh today.

Anyway, I wonder what Goldsmith thought of this movie Baby and the score that resulted from his efforts but as artists usually refer to their creations very diplomatically as being something like their 'children', I guess he must have loved all his 'children' equally for different reasons.

Frankly, I've never seen Baby and I've never listened to any of the score nor any of its music samples for that matter.

Sometimes I avoid listening to music samples of a particular unfamiliar film score on purpose since on occassion they can be misleading and mainly because I prefer to be competely 'virginal' and uninfluenced and completely taken by suprise when I first listen to the film score.

Besides, I would have purchased this score anyway no matter what because I am curious and mainly because I like and trust Jerry Goldsmith avoiding being overly critical.

I just listen to his music, breathe in deeply and let osmosis take over.

How can I have most of JG releases and not want to listen to something I don't have and something that was never, ever officially released except for some tracks in a Film Music Society cd soundtrack?

But whatever anyone perceives a score to be, isn't music appreciation a personal and subjective experience really?

Briefly, in my humble, opinion Goldsmith was a progressive and innovative composer, not afraid in experimenting with new sounds and new approaches in creating music (film music)...

His music was/is transparent and never stale.

As soon as Intrada gets their Baby cd's in stock, I will finally receive this much talked about soundtrack and have yet another JG 'virginity' taken away. Till then, I choose to remain untouched and pure as a baby... something like... Locke's 'Tabula Rasa' proposition?

For the time being, ignorance is bliss but I must admit that I can't wait to tickle my music fancy when this... Baby soundtrack arrives, hopefully soon damn it!!!

Ta ta for now!...

:p

serifiot, April 21, 2008; 4:55 PM

Jerry Goldsmith of the early 60's is like nothing else. The television scores he and other composers created during that period are the absolute best. The Varese Sarabande recordings of "Twilight Zone" scores contain some exceptional early work of the composer. Into the 1980's and beyond he was probably more interested in the money as many of the films he scored were poor quality big budget trash. "Executive Decision" is total trash as is U.S. Marshals. The Goldsmith music is the only thing worthwhile about both as far as I'm concerned.

victoravalentine, April 21, 2008; 6:55 PM

For an opened copy from someone who doesn't give a damn, just $50.00.

tharpdevenport, April 22, 2008; 2:26 AM

@ serifiot: "BTW, I have not seen anyone mention Coma"
I did mention it in my post.

philkws, April 22, 2008; 8:21 AM

I have not opened mine and I think that I never gonna open it.
If someone wants it I can sell it for 100€ (includes shipping to Europe).


m.jalava, April 23, 2008; 3:12 PM

Open it and enjoy the music m.jalava! You'll like it.

By the way, there are still copies available at www.soundtrackcorner.de for 69.95 € (plus postage). Let the people interested in purchasing this CD, real soundtrack collectors or music lovers, get it for the lowest possible price (unless, until it is definitively sold out everywhere).

Kindest regards,
Angel

angeldibujo, April 23, 2008; 4:05 PM