It is indeed an interesting question bipcress which in fact has crossed the mind of this humble and passionate listener (I hate the word 'fan') and collector of film music but being no expert in film music history I cannot provide an expert's answer. I am curious and eager though to read how other forum members with true knowledge on the subject might tackle your question. In order for some less informed forum members to understand the question better... What does The Golden and The Silver Age of film music refer to? Why this distinction? Does The Golden Age refer to a more superior breed of film music than The Siver Age? What age is film music in now? I know that FSM uses these terms along with retrograde (whatever this term signifies) to separate I guess between scores composed by the pioneers of film music and the more contemporary composers even though I am not sure since some composers are found in both categories. Could it be pinpointed to only ONE definite film score that begins and ONE definite film score that ends The Silver Age of film music? I would think they are probably a few, and again the answers are subjective and quite relative.

serifiot, February 12, 2006; 3:15 PM

Golden Age is simply a term which refers to the earliest period of film music, and some describe film music from this time as being "classic". This took place during the 30's (possibly beginning in the 20's) and through the early 50's, and featured all the original Hollywood giants such as Max Steiner and Franz Waxman. The Silver Age of film music began in the 50's (probably late 50's), and was generated in part (amongst other factors) by jazz and rock having an effect on popular culture. The Silver Age probably ended in the 70's, and, if we stick to the system used by comic book historians, would be followed by a Bronze Age; late 70's through to the early 90's. I suppose late 90's up to and including new scores would be called Contemporary film music. As you pointed out some artists have straddled two epochs, such as Bernard Herrmann and Bronislau Kaper. Curiously it seems a film music Golden Age would be dominated by American film composers, but the Silver Age would have to include major talents of other countries; Italy, France, Britain, Japan, Germany. I think a single film score needs to be settled upon as beginning or ending each Age, otherwise there is no point to the exercise. I am not maintaining that all of the particulars I have put forth here are carved in stone. The reason I've posted this question on the net is because I believe it should be resolved democratically, or more to the point, soundtrack connoisseurs/scholars/experts, as a group effort, should decide these somewhat ephemeral details. JohnB

bipcress, February 8, 2006; 1:36 AM

Unfortunately I also don't know the answer regarding the borders of the Silver Age. I can only remind that FSM did mark "Joy In The Morning" as the very last Golden Age score. I would be also interested to hear some more opinions about this.



"Curiously it seems a film music Golden Age would be dominated by American film composers, but the Silver Age would have to include major talents of other countries; Italy, France, Britain, Japan, Germany."

I am sorry to say so but this is a complete nonsense. Not only many of the most influential Golden Age composers were of European origin (often directly born in Europe) - like Max Steiner, Franz Waxman, Bronislau Kaper, Miklos Rozsa, Paul Sawtell, Ernest Gold -, but there were similar "Golden Ages" at that time in all the respective countries with their respective Golden Age composers (Jean Wiener in France or Franco Casavola in Italy to name just two). It's the rising number of co-productions and the globalisation that led to some composers becoming rather "international" - Barry, Jarre, Nascimbene, Morricone, Delerue...

And unfortunately the countries with even smaller soundtrack fan bases (especially when it comes to Golden Age fans) than the USA are not likely to be introducting their Golden Age composers on CD's today, so many great names and scores remain in obscurity, maybe for ever.

42zaphod, February 8, 2006; 2:03 AM

Thank you for the clarification bipcress. Very interesting and informative indeed. I would think since jazz music is a major influence and an element in film music from The Silver Age, perhaps Alex North's 1951 film score to 'A Street Car Named Desire' might be a very early prototype of Silver Age film music. What music trends would the Bronze Age be influenced by? Is it electronic/new age music?

serifiot, February 8, 2006; 2:29 AM

42zaphod I'm sure bipcress is not denying the fact that these giant and pioneer composers of The Golden Age of film music were native Europeans. Most if not all of Hollywood's major contributors were either native Europeans or had European roots. Perhaps you are confusing The Golden Age of cinena of various countries at different eras with the specific term: 'The Golden Age Of Film Music'. Surely their must have been great French and Italian film composers during the respective early cinema years for each country but I believe that the predominant driving force and undeniable mega movie machine and film music monster of the 20's, 30's & 40's was America.

serifiot, February 8, 2006; 3:20 AM

It seems we are slowly starting to get somewhere on this - great! Can we agree on Herrmann's JOY IN THE MORNING as the last Golden Age score? I have no problem with it. Also, North's A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE is getting mentioned frequently as the first Silver Age score (I've posted this question on a few other boards). How about a last Silver Age score?

bipcress, February 8, 2006; 3:27 AM

Their might not ever be a last Silver Age film score. Since jazz and rock & roll are elements pertaining to this group of film music and since these music elements are still very prevalent and alive in our culture today and evolving, I would think film scores with these elements are still perhaps to a much lesser degree still being composed throughout the world.

serifiot, February 8, 2006; 4:03 AM

The problem is, that there is nothing like a definite border, it seems to be a rather slow transition. If you call "Joy In The Morning" the last Golden Age score, I would step in and ask you to categorize "The Greatest Story Ever Told", which happened a year after the Herrmann score, but is Golden Age at its best and composed by one of the greatest composers of the Golden Age. On the other hand, several Alfred Newman scores clearly have jazz influences and would therefore count as "Silver Age" scores. Interestingly, scores that are without any doubt, Golden Age classics like Miklos Rozsa's "Spellbound", make use of intruments, that were then new and seldomely heard in other works of the era.
That said, in my opinion, it's quite difficult to make a definite classification. For sure, there are composers, which are mostly associated with an era of film music (Alfred Newman, Miklos Rozsa, Franz Waxman, Dimtri Tiomkin, Max Steiner, Hugo Friedhofer, Bernard Herrmann - Golden; John Barry, Jerry Goldsmith, Henry Mancini - Silver), but it's very likely, that you will find a Golden Age score in the catalogue of the Silver Age composers and conversely.
Perhaps it's a good startpoint for this classification to compare the score for a movie with the popular music of the time it was made. Therefore you will come to the result, that "Thunderball" for instance must be clearly Silver Age, as it matches very well with the common musical taste of the 1960s, while scores like Alfred Newman's "Greatest Story Ever Told" sounded "dated" in comparison to what was popular in the 1960s.

shicorp, February 8, 2006; 11:42 AM

First, "Amen" to serifiot's response to 42zaphod. Of course when I mentioned "American" Golden Age composers I was not referring to tribal Indians, but rather individuals of various national origins (European) who, at the time, were living and working in Hollywood, and who were bona fide citizens of the USA. Also, it appears many members are getting stuck by this little exercise because of the very "soft" nature of the borders between the Silver and Golden Age. The point here is not to try and convince anyone that Golden Age style film scores disappeared (or the Silver Age began) abruptly, but rather to add some informal clarity and additional charm to our enjoyment of this art form. We are a special breed of art lovers in that we all know a Silver Age score when we hear one - most Earthlings can't do that! It will be fun to find consensus as to what particular scores will be best suited, for a multitude of reasons, to be the alpha or omega of these beloved periods in film music history. These labels should not be viewed as hard science or historical fact, but rather as expressions of our (we collectors/connoisseurs) unique and deep appreciation and understanding of film music. - John Bender

bipcress, February 8, 2006; 8:27 PM

Yes that sounds wise and my initial response was a bit out of place. I think the STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE is a good candidate for the first "Silver" title. Rosenman's COBWEB was apparently also a break in the mid 1950's.
As far as TV is concerned, PETER GUNN (1959) is often marked as revolutionary but I don't know if we can speak of "Golden TV Age".

42zaphod, February 9, 2006; 12:22 AM

To further the fuziness of the border between eras, consider Time After Time and Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid by Rosza. Silver Age? Golden Age? Clearly a golden age composer, but the films were made during the Silver Age or the Bronze Age(Modern Age?)

ragar01, March 30, 2006; 3:42 AM