Michel, have you researched if Varèse put anything on iTunes that was not available from Varèse on CD before?

On the topic in general, I have two issues with song downloads from iTunes:

a) What you get is audio files with reduced audio information compared to a CD. There is no full CD quality download option.

b) Pricing (as coma said). Given I don't get an audio CD nor inserts nor a case, 10$ is too much.

I am not generally against music downloads, but the above points are my main issues why I still have not bought anything from the iTunes Music Store. Have to admit though I'm considering buying HALF LIGHT, though with slightly gritting teeth. The sound clips just sounded too good. ;-)

Regards,

Urs

handstand, July 30, 2006; 2:37 AM

I guess you're right nothing can replace a beautiful edition of the soundtrack you've been
chased for years !
But the reality of the market is different and every composer don't have the chance to
see their work edited by Varese or Intrada . They don't even have the rights of their own
music most of the time as it belongs to the studio .
I read that Mark Snow did try to release himself the Millennium score but Fox didn't
allowed him to do so .

When he proposed his rejected score for Troy on his own site for download Gabriel Yared
had a serious risk of penal pursuit from the studio

What are the options then ?

michel, July 30, 2006; 2:37 AM

I agree that sometimes there just might not be any other option. What still bothers me then is the non-availability of full CD quality downloads. I would not mind downloading an hour or two for something really rare and good that is not available in any other way.

handstand, July 30, 2006; 2:42 AM

I understand your point of view and I am not satisfied by the quality of the sound
neither. I am just trying to put it in the perspective of the composer .
I will remain a collector myself and my only worry is that many soundtracks are
not released and will never be .
For the varese i don't think it has been released first
http://www.varesesarabande.com/details.asp?pid=302%2D066%2D739%2D2

michel, July 30, 2006; 2:46 AM

I am totally pro legitimate releases but i rather buy a bootleg CD than download itunes or whatever similar sites! Where are we going???? Where are the original cd's and lp's going?

baalgehenna, July 30, 2006; 11:30 AM

Well, one (maybe) interesting side note.
A few months ago I spoke with the guys from a german soundtrack shop and they said that they approached Francis Shaw about releasing EVIL but his reply was that there is already a label working on it. So they moved on.
Then it showed up on iTunes.

I think that not all possibilities of real releases are always tried !!

And here in Germany some CD-plants/agencies offers quantities of 300 copies. Don't know about Skandinavia but I am quite sure that such a limited CD-pressing along with the downloable version should be possible.

Regards to the great forum.

goldsmithsonian, July 30, 2006; 12:37 PM

This might be the beginning of a new era.... some years later there probably won't be no CDs anymore and everything will be downloadable... bleeeeh! hate this when there are many crapy CDs released by Walt Disney records they should also release score CDs... all they worry is their own profit - when they can release their shitty complations (Lillo and Stitch, Pooh Heffalump) they certainly should have release the scores as well... when can Dreamworks records release some stupid country CD for Prince of Egypt (and 5 others) why they dont release the score as well??

Well, a year ago there was restrictable policies by AFM which are now gone - and everything could get released in a limited edition with a number of copies below 14,999 which would be enough for titles such as Half Light or Eight Bellow and companies won't have to pay ANY re-use fees on limited edition!
Assholes!

petrkocanda, July 30, 2006; 1:18 PM

Hello to you all,

When I first became aware of "only on iTunes" music
I became very worried that more and more studios would
use this inferior way of distributing their music. Because
the quality of the sound is less than that of a real cd,
also the lifespan of self burned cd's may be shorter than most people expect.

When I bought a computer with a cd-burner some 8 years ago I burned some music cd's.
To my frustration quite a lot of those "first pressings" are no longer playable.
It has to do with the fact I wanted labels on the cd's. During playback the cd's become warm,
and that will warp the disc, so you'll get a fast tsshhk tsshhk sound along with the music).
Also the non-durability of self burned computer cd's
leaves a lot to be desired as I found out in a pc magazine some years later.
They stated that 7 to 20 years is the expected lifespan.
Does that mean you'll have to make new copies every few years or so.... ?
Or do you have to buy at least two extra hard-discs for your music collection
(in case one of them has a major breakdown).
So to me it's not really a good alternative,
it's more like lending the music for a limited time from an expensive library.
You'll end up spending a lot of time and money on keeping your collection "alive".


To me it comes down to these four things I don't like about downloads....

1. The inferior quality of MP3's (it makes violins and sopranos sound edgy and shrill,
and it seriously limits the size of the soundstage, the music does not breathe anymore)
2. The limited times are you allowed to copy your bought music to a new hard disc or cd.
With other words; The short lifespan of downloads.
3. What happens if one track dissolves into the next track (like Zimmer likes to do).
You'll propably never hear the music in a flawless continuous flow.
4. Self-printed booklets?

I really hope that the cd will not go the way of the Dodo.

regards and enjoy the music,
Wim


WimArnhem, July 30, 2006; 1:35 PM

Hi,

I hate that stuff too !

After all it's in our hands, if we - the collectors - don't buy it, it will disappear the sooner (which I'm hoping!) or the later from the market.

birnam, July 30, 2006; 4:36 PM

I really will not add much to the comments posted but I surely agree with all viewpoints and all the negative aspects of downloadable music which is basically price and sound quality.
If some unavailable score though I really wanted was only available as a downloadable option through some internet site, then I might consider the remote possibility of paying to download it with great hesitation.

Personally I want to have a brand new, if possible, professionally factory pressed great sounding sealed cd soundtrack on my hands with case and great ink smelling inserts/informative booklets and nothing less than that.
I want my great looking and sounding FSM scores, Varese cd club releases, Intrada, Prometheus, Perseverance, etc. produced and distributed by these record labels and not downloadable through cyberspace by some website.

I am really not familiar with these emerging internet sites where one has to pay to download music or even films. Frankly, I don't even bother.
I would like to know the politics involved between these sites record labels and artists though which I'm sure besides the profit involved have some logic to them.

I don't like what GDM has been doing at all, forcing you in a way to become a member so as to download their music at ridiculous prices not giving the soundtrack collector a choice, and the extent of their success with their idea of this so called cd club.

Indeed if we the soundtrack collectors don't purchase and snub these downloads, chances are these downloadable soundtrack possibilities will be discontinued but what about today's newcomers and also the rest of the music genres including films?
The available overwhelming abundance of trash which most of today's fast food generation is hungrily gulping down with great appetite is being dictated by the big conglomerates.
The music industry is relying on them for their survival and chances of succeeding are high.

I only hope these 'downloadable' music sites are a passing trend and not like very wisely stated by petrkocanda a way of the future and the dawn of a new era which hopefully will not replace the manufacturing of professionally factory pressed cd soundtracks and all music genres in general including films.

Perhaps all these ways in listening to music and viewing films will hopefully co-exist without eliminating CD and DVD manufacturing giving the customer a choice instead.

serifiot, July 30, 2006; 7:00 PM

With all due respect, but I think believing that music downloads will disappear is as realistic like hoping the internet will disappear again and we will all return to books, TV and radio (and vinyls!). The most likely way is that audio CDs will become way more expensive and downloads the only option for normal mortals (i.e. people with an average income).

Sad, but the only thing that could prevent this would be legislation - very unrealistic. As the size of the soundtrack market is so small that it is irrelevant to the major music labels (as well as to legislators), the proposal of a consumer boycott as suggested here cannot succeed (and the same goes for market regulation by law, no parliament would pass a law for the film score community which numbers - world-wide - a few thousand of us geeks). We are just too few to be relevant to the majors. Given that most of our cherished small soundtrack labels today seem to struggle to just survive (it seems to me that Varèse is probably the only soundtrack label that is somehow stable), I don't see much hope for the survival of affordable CDs. I hope though that downloads of full CD quality will become available.

Eventually I do not think that expressing hatred of downloads in ever more furious words will have any additional impact... Don't get me wrong, I definitely want to keep well manufactured hard copies of soundtracks forever, too. But I think CDs will go the way of vinyls.

Urs

handstand, July 30, 2006; 6:13 PM

What a dismal thought! I'll try to be more optimistic.

People who appreciate, listen to, and collect soundtracks cannot be in the thousands worldwide... impossible!... A million?
I believe that film music appreciation especially after the dawn of the internet is ever growing.

I'm sure there are more, lots more people who listen to film music and collect soundtracks who are invisible and choose to remain so. They are simply devoted to their film music soundtracks without even bothering to interact with other fellow film music devotees.

serifiot, July 30, 2006; 7:29 PM

David, on this point: "Downloads in general surely won't disappear but I'd eat my pants if GDM, CAM or whoever had a remarkable number of customers downloading scores!" - I even agree that GDM and CAM probably have a very small number of downloading customers. But I think their financial loss from a non-sold download (a difficult idea: virtual over-stocks ;-) ) is so small that even a small number of downloads pays off. That's the difference from a low-selling real CD: When you sell downloads, you break even much quicker and easier.

Apart from that, I think that GDM's very unique download model (a flat subscription rate of 90€ a year?) sets such a high "entry hurdle" that it actually deters even the download-willing customers. It just seems that subscription does not get much acceptance in this market compared to pay-per-song.

Eventually, a question or incertainty: So far I always thought that the GDM Digital Music Club does not include any online exclusives; I was believing it would only give you access to mp3s of their whole catalogue of music already released by GDM on CDs (plus three real CDs of your choice - given they are still on stocks).

Regards,

Urs

P.S.: I am glad we can have a sensible debate on this forum, even when we don't fully agree. In contrast, I am getting tired of the FSM board with all the one-line threads of the "Jehova is great!" kind (insert composer name of your choice instead of Jehova). Good to see posts HERE that actually make efforts to give REASONS for the opinions expressed. :-)

P.P.S:: I forgot to thank Wim for the information about the efforts to release EVIL. A very interesting insight.

handstand, July 30, 2006; 8:46 PM

Hi,

in my previous mail I was thinking of soundtrack downloads only (I should have mentioned this more clearly). I don't think neither that downloads in general will disappear, the kids who want a song for their party will continue in great numbers using this easy way of getting hold of their song.

Considering the numbers of copies sold per release at soundtrack labels there are about one thousand of us around on this planet (Robert Townson said in Ubeda that if he would have released those 1000 copies club CDs on a regular basis he probably would have sold less than a thousand). That's not very much considering the whole population ! I still think not buying a soundtrack download is the best way of getting rid of this. I guess if a soundtrack has no release at all we always may have a chance to see it released one of these days, but a soundtrack with a download available and not making money will have its chances of a CD release seriously diminished.

birnam, July 30, 2006; 11:31 PM

My mind is racing, my questions endless and topics on film music can be stretched to infinity.

Basically we all agree and are expressing similar opinions... we don't want FILM MUSIC to be totally replaced by downloads!

WHY? Why don't we?

Well... because the current sound quality of downloads is poor, and costly as well.
We want to be able to see and hold the cd's and place them against our heart.
We want the great artwork and the great inlays that come with a decent production.
We want to kiss them, smell them, even sleep with them but most of all we want to enjoy our favorite film music with the best possible sound whenever possible.

What if I told you that you can download all the film music ever composed and which has survived since the beginning of the last century till today for FREE in the best possible fullest sound as if the music was being performed live in front of you.
No reason to purchase cheaply made pirate cd's and bootlegs.
Cheaply made cd's and bootlegs are obsolete, a thing of the past!

Any Goldsmith composition that has survived, any Bernstein, Delerue, Barry, Morricone, Francis Lai, Trevor Jones, Herrmann, Broughton, Roubaix, any composer, any film score your heart desires.

Any released or unreleased film score from the past till the present which has survived.

"Young Sherlock Holmes"
"Space Camp"
"Whatever Happened To Baby Jane"
"Marathon Man"
"Body Double"
"Dead Ringers"
"Dunwich Horror"
"In Cold Blood"
"The Day Of The Locust"
"The Bad Seed"
"The Deep"

You name it!...

Would you say... "NO THANK YOU!? I prefer officially manufactured record label compact discs!"

I want to be able to touch my soundtracks.
I want to have inlays.
I want to see them nicely stored on shelves.

Unless one is living in a 10.000 square foot house, how many meters of bookshelves would one need to store 825.000 soundtrack cd albums, 240.000 general music cd albums, 9.000 classical music cd albums, 24.000 LP albums, 14.250 45RPM records, 42.000 cassettes and finally those 1.200 8-track tapes stored in the basement long forgotten along with the myriad of VHS tapes and of course last but not least the 490.000 DVD's?

I would think quite a lot!

Why clutter your life and limit your listening and viewing pleasure because of space?

Why not have everything and more?

Why not have a rich library of entertainment in one PC with the clik of a button?

What would you say to the idea of 'File Sharing'?! Sharing film music?!...

The sharing of ALL music and ALL films ever available... only at a fraction of what would cost you to purchase these in 2006 by simply becoming a 'File Sharing' member and paying a very basic affordable monthly, yearly or even lifetime fee.

What would you honestly say to this?

Whould you say... "NO THANK YOU!?"

Today is July 31st and it's the 'Year Of The Rat'.

The year is 2020!...

serifiot, July 31, 2006; 4:20 AM

Goodmorning! Back to 2006...

It is a teasing idea is it not?

Sharing files as you probably know is actually not something new.
It does exist for a fee or even for free but in quite limiting numbers especially when it comes to film music.

I have to agree with you though.
Besides the pleasure of listening to film music, the discovery and acquisition of a particular film music soundtrack is just as exciting and sometimes even more so.
I love to browse through record stores, bazaars, flea markets, bargain bins and the internet of course for the film music in mind.

The world is changing at a very fast pace though coma, more so than before, and future generations in the years to come might choose other available pathways and think otherwise.

Should I say how unfortunate?

I don't know.

How unfortunate for them, how unfortunate for us.

Time will only tell!

P.S. Now I think it's time for my usual stroll and search for film music. Till then!...

;- )

serifiot, July 31, 2006; 2:42 PM

Plain simple for me. We can complain forever but... ITUNES is better than NOTHING. Period.

falcsanz, July 31, 2006; 5:46 PM