Well I am almost positive some are from the dvd of the film. I know Top Gun has been pulled from the dvd, as it has shown up on more than one occasion on Ebay. I know there is a certain fool who I wont even mention that lurks around here trying to pawn off the unreleased score from Rocky 4 as genuine.

joelfan71, March 9, 2007; 2:28 AM

Who's to say a bootleg score can't be "genuine"? Just because there might not have been an "official" soundtrack relase on album or CD doesn't make a bootleg any less "genuine".

Some can be....as was mentioned....created from a DVD which might have an isolated music track, or an older laserdisc release with the same feature of an isolated track, or some CAN be legit "promo" releases done to promote the movie and/or composer, but were never officially released on vinyl or CD to the public for whatever reason was decided not to release it.

kriegerg69, March 9, 2007; 2:38 AM

These days, with advanced technology any nosepicker and his cousin can bootleg a recording on compact disc.

Back in the day when unofficial recordings were released on limited edition vinyl it took a hell of a lot of good old Yankee know how and equipment weighing in excess of several hundred pounds (Not to mention a big ball of raw vinyl rolled into individual baseball sized chunks).


victoravalentine, March 9, 2007; 4:33 PM

Are you calling me a "nosepicker"? :-) Just kidding... I don't make bootlegs myself........ I just buy them ;-) (rooooh, I'm just kidding!) :-)
... and please leave my cousin alone... he doesn't like soundtracks!

davegaumann, March 9, 2007; 6:12 PM

Yes, Rinse, BUT the whole point is that you're getting the music AS it was heard on the soundtrack of the film itself....Soundtrack album releases are generally a separate recording done apart from the recordings done for the film itself, and even though you may get a "complete" or "longer" version of a piece, you're not hearing it exactly as it was heard in the film itself....That's my whole defense for an isolated score rip or even some bootlegs.

kriegerg69, March 9, 2007; 6:58 PM

Agree with last post. One of the scores wanted in the scores wanted section is LAST EMBRACE which contains barely half the music from the film. The bootleg has the lot....

Lets face it, as buyers we are generally (there are exceptions of course) getting shafted by someone else who is making a profit out of our hobby. I dont really care who it is, i just like the music. As long as the sound quality is good, why not buy a bootleg ?
Bootlegs tend to be released when there is not an 'official' release anyway, so it is not as if the two versions are competing with one another for sales and 'legit' companies are being put out of business.


buddylove447, March 10, 2007; 5:05 AM

The Last Embrace recording on Varese Sarabande was produced and recorded as a listening experience aside from the film. Using every cue on a recording, can at times, turn the listening experience into a boring one.

I like listening to individual cues from time to time, then again, I also enjoy the score recording thing as well.

I would love to hear a recording of Quincy Jones score from "In Cold Blood" as heard on the films soundtrack. Then again, the score recording on Colgems kick some heavy ass around the block as well.



victoravalentine, March 10, 2007; 10:30 AM

Hooray for buddylove447 and Kriqerq69 my feelings exactly

dspin24358, March 10, 2007; 7:57 PM

Having worked in the film industry for a VERY long time, now retired & just enjoy the listening pleasures, I can give you some clues where boot legs come from.

The number 1 source used to be studio copies. LPs/Extended Singles & then CDs which were produced by the studio/composer for purely promotional purposes to either show case the muisc or the artist in general.

Then came those who has access to recording sessions & the tapes/film stems. In some cases the score session tapes were transfered to other countries, when dubbing or alterations were to be made to the final film & hence a 'leak' & the copy was made. Other time a disgruntles employee or just plain stupidity at the studio, lead to the tapes getting out onto the open market.

In the closing years of my time at the studios, there were 1 or 2 rumours of some composers so annoyed with a studio not letting their work be released in a legitimate market, that they themselves put out copies, almost as a spite. But I personally have never thought such stories were true. The integrity of a composer to protect their work & their reputation & just pure professional attitude leads me to think this is 1 of those 'film collector crazy rumours'!

Although Yared did put out a Troy promotional disc & I am quite certain he knew it would be 'copied' & it is often though it was done to spite the studio? true or false who knows, maybe he just wanted his music heard by someone & why not it's a wonderful score & deserves the proper attention of a legitimate release, my opinion of course & no I don't have a copy, I heard it at a friends house who has an original promo disc.

The era of Laser Dscs & DVD & isolated score tracks did bring in whole new chance to increase the number of boot legged scores. How many are done & to what extent, not sure if anyone really knows, but the medium has certainly added to the issue of boot legs & it has become quite noticable that some composers have been very vocal to NOT have their score isloted or if so will commnet over part all all of the music!

I have often thought that if studios were not so short sighted & artists not so greedy & lawyers not so involved there would be far more legal muisc out there & there would be less of these releases, good or bad.

But as such markets are often so small & contribute far less to the saleability of a movie it is often the last thing a studio can be bothered with & therefore the score get lost in the whole release process. These issues are often seen as so insignificant to a release & why bother to tie up funds & time for what is such a short lived medium now days, that the music, unless filled with the latest pop tune are just not bothered with.

However we look at it, it's just not commercial enough for a studio.

Therefore those with access or ability will step in and fill the void that is left over. Makes no difference if you agree with the whole ileagal issue or not, it will continue where there is a void someone will always fill it, by what ever means. That is the case with any market, not just sound tracks. Look at the commercial popular muisc market, there is a constant stream 'never released' cds coming out, the 'unreleased tracks' the 'from the vaults ' cds. Why? because it makes sense to make these thing available to reduce the ileagal copies that are on the open market.

Added to which as technology moves ahead as fast as it does, I'm more than certain that there will come a time that the home PC will be able to take a DVD or whatever format is on the market & break it down to it's individual componets & there you are ! 1 home made soundtrack!! It's just technology moving forward.

So in reality until the greed factor is taken out the sum, there will always be a boot leg market & the more movies are transported about the world to finish production, the easier it will becaome to access data/tapes/discs or film stems to copy it & get it into the open market.

I will agree with many of the points in this thread, sometimes a full score is warranted & some time the repetive nature is just boring! 1 of the reasons why when a legal copy comes onto the market I will often replace a 'copy' I have, why? because the skill of the muisc producer to remove to reptetive tracks from a score & construct an enjoyable listening experience for me exceeds the need to have a 'copy' with every single cue/beat that appears in the film.

May the likes of Intrada/Film Score Monthy/Verese Sarabande/La La Land Records & the other labels who work so hard for our enjoyment continue & may more studios open their doors & minds to reason & less greed.

But whatever you listen to enjoy the muisc as thats what this hobby/interest is really all about.

regards

Andy b

ajbjmdb, March 11, 2007; 4:19 AM

To a certain extent I do agree that some 'complete' scores can be boring, but sometimes your favourite moment (of music) may be a tiny little cue which doesnt make the cut on the legit, pared down cd. For some of my favourite scores i will buy both the legit and bootleg scores, but many people cannot afford to do this. What should they do? At least with the full version you can program out tracks on your cd player to create your own 'listening experience'. (Veering off only very slightly) As a Morricone fan with finite resources, i'm often put out by a new version of a cd which I bought 3 years ago with two extra cues that are virtually the same as cues on the first cd.....I find myself wondering why those 2 cues were not on the first release and why they were then put on the 2nd and you kind of wonder if you are just getting screwed. Anyway, thats my two-pen'worth.

buddylove447, March 11, 2007; 7:27 AM

Some complete scores can be from DVD isolated scores. Alo as stated by Andy a lot of composers will release their own work because they want others to hear it or so they can promote the music or themselves. I know Don Davis releases his own work which eventually gets leaked into the online public.

Most of these complete scores may never see a real legit release through say Varese, Intrada or FSM because of the reuse fees and such.

BigT1981, March 12, 2007; 3:27 PM

As a collector, I like having official, snazzily presented copies of all my purchases (be it
CDs or DVDs) sitting on the shelf. I can look around, take in it's beauty and think "Yeah...
I own some cool stuff." This is why I can't quite fathom the download culture, where the
only way you can own something is in digital form, with nothing to look at or hold and
caress.

Having said that, I have downloaded stuff and bought bootlegs. Why? 'Cos it's not
available to me right now. A good 30% of my collection I've downloaded, then when I
found a copy in stores, I've replaced with a pristine hard copy.

And then there's the bootlegs. For most of them, I already own the official release. But
the bootlegs often contain much more music and the original session cues. I recently
acquired a copy of Marco Beltrami's Hellboy, specifically for 2 cues: Where Liz Sherman
incinerates Samael, and the original film version of "Hellboy and Liz," which for some
reason on the album is missing the soaring choir, which for me totally made the whole
cue.

The ones I don't already own aren't officially available. But when/if they do, I'll replace
them with an official copy, 'cos that's the nature of a true collector.

And thanks ajbjmdb for an interesting insight...

his_dudeness2002, March 17, 2007; 10:42 PM