So why must he "sell" it if the composers want us to have it?

If they want to get the music out there, then they can give it away to the members of SoundtrackCollector!

Let's contact Bill Conti's agent and see if he wants this guy selling his music to "fans" so he can get the exposure he can't seem to get anywhere else...Sheesh!

hammon, March 21, 2007; 2:08 AM

lol, gotta hate them there bad smells.........just lingering!!!

anthonynputson, March 21, 2007; 6:40 AM

Joelfan - I am staggered by your childishness! And you wonder why I pulled out of doing business with you?! I only do business with adults - i.e. people who know how to be discreet. As soon as I discovered that this is what you were like, and that I could not trust you, I pulled the plug on any possible deal.

And how exactly have I been "exposed"?! I freely admit that I sell and trade promos and unreleased scores that have never been available. Get over it already! All the self-righteous moral indignation is so hollow - ALL OF YOU have at some point in your life bought or owned a bootleg of some form of media. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar, pure and simple. Let's just be honest here, huh?

I would not ordinarily stoop to Joelfan's level, but to prove my point, allow me to expose Joelfan/Daryl's cretinous hypocrisy. In an email dated 23 January 2007, Joelfan stated the following re the purchase of the Rocky 4 score:

"First off thank you for giving me all the information you
have to this point. I want to apologize for being so skeptical about the possibility of getting any of the soundtracks we have talked about. If you would kindly proceed with how you would handle the purchase of mp3's, I would like ot go ahead and do that.

Do you have any information on the other two scores I was looking for? Those would be the 1982 film "THE TOY", and the 1980 film "MY BODYGUARD". If you need any further information on those, please let me know. If either or both of those are possible, I will DEFIANTLY be purchasing those after the ROCKY 4"

See? Joelfan was actively attempting to buy the score from me, knowing full well that it had never been released. Furthermore, he also wanted to buy two other unreleased scores that he knows have never been available. The he has the gall in a later email to chastise me for selling unreleased scores?! It really is laughable! Hypocrisy beyond belief!

And all those threads were Joelfan was slagging off people for buying promos and non retail stuff - well, HE has well and truly been exposed a liar and a hypocrite. In one breath he slates people for buying such things, and then in another he's trying to buy the VERY SAME things! Amazing! If anyone would like to see the originals of my email correspondence with Joelfan, contact me and I will forward them to you.

This is the problem with this forum - full of people like Joelfan who jump on anyone who sells non-retail released stuff whilst in private, they probably have a whole collection full of bootlegs and promos! This forum should just about the MUSIC - not a battleground for the self-righteous to judge people from their high horses.

Now - There must be some fair minded people out there. You can criticise me for selling promos and unreleased stuff - fair enough. However, you do not have the right (like Joelfan repeatedly does) to make things up and make negative inferences about my conduct with customers.

In Joelfan's situation, I simply decided that I didn't like his childish attitude (as displayed yet again with this thread) and declined to do business with him. I stopped emailing him - big deal. He offered me money, I refused to take it. If I was ripping people off, surely I would just take the money?! No. All I am guilty of with regards to Joelfan is failing to communicate with him about my intention to end our prospective deal. So sue me!

Did HE inform me that he was going to write lie after lie about me on a public message board? No. So why should I communicate with him?

What Joelfan then does is come to a place like this and spew out all sorts of inaccurate rubbish in an attempt to make it look like I rip people off. I NEVER rip people off. There are plenty of people out there who will give me a glowing testimonial, however, unlike Joelfan, I respect privacy and would never dream of betraying a confidence.

There is a HUGE market for people who want scores that have never been released. Deal with it! I am one of the people who provide the music to those that want it. If you don't like it, fine - that is your right. However, DO NOT infer that I am dishonest in my dealings with people, because that is not true in any shape or form.

Joelfan's actions are, I'm sure, not representative of everyone on this board. If anyone would like proof of my honesty, then email me, and I will (with their permission) put you in touch with people who have dealt with me in the past.

Ultimately, it is simple: Thousands of scores throughout the years end up locked away and never see the light of day due to contract disputes etc. Many composers do not like this. They are artists, and like most artists, they want people to appreciate their work. If it's locked away, it cannot be appreciated. Many composers CANNOT release their own music because they are contractually unable to - i.e. the studio/prod co owns the rights to the work. Composers then find ways of getting the music out there discreetly. This way, they know that the music will be picked up and distributed around the world in a matter of months, thus getting their work out there.

And so what if I make money out of it?! This is a free world and a free market. There are millions of people across the globe who make money in a similar fashion. And why? Because there is market for it. Supply and demand. Simple economics. If someone wants something, there will invariably be someone out there who can get it. The whole world is founded upon this principle.

And do you really think composers care?! Get real. Every sale of a bootleg/promo/unreleased score raises their profile and gets people interested in their work, which leads to people buying retail versions of other work. Furthermore, bootlegs force labels to released a composer's work because a definite market can be identified. People like me who get the music out there are GOOD for composers.

Take the impending Varese release of the Karate Kid scores. They have been about as superb quality unreleased scores for years. Why are they releasing the KK scores now? Because they KNOW there is a market for them. If there was no market, the scores would not be released. End of story.

Not everything is about money! It is more important for most composers that they leave behind a body of work that will live forever, and not stay chained away in a vault. This is the reality - get used to it! There are thousands of people who work in the industry who act as conduits to the rest of the world. You may not want to accept it but it is the truth.

As for me - as I stated above, I sell/trade unreleased scores. If you want to get on my back about that, then do. All I would ask is that you please stop telling lies and stick to the facts. If you don't want to buy or trade from me, don't! Just don't be childish and spread lies which have no basis in fact.

And as for you Joelfan - I have exposed your hypocrisy, and you have made yourself look an utter fool with your repeated immature ravings. And, as I stated in my last email, I have obtained the scores to THE TOY and MY BODYGUARD - two scores that you really want, but thanks to your unprofessional behaviour, will never get your hands on.



serpico77, March 21, 2007; 10:39 AM

Come on Phileroach - The evidence I know people in the industry is my ability to get hold of the rarest scores. I cannot reveal specific details as this is not the way things work. The whole thing is predicated on discretion - surely you can understand that?

And I'm not here to prove to people I have access to industry insiders! I don't really care if people believe me or not. What I care about is people spreading malicious lies about me.

Composers cannot release the music by themselves because 99% of the time, they do not own the rights to distribute the music. Composers have to get permission to release a "composer promo" and most of the time they are turned down. An analogy to this is screenplays: When a writer sells a screenplay, it belongs to the studio/prod co. They cannot then enter into a separate deal to sell the screenplay in book form etc without the permission of the studio.

The same goes for film scores. The composer doesn't own the score. They can only release it separately if they have permission from whoever owns the score. This can take months or years of legal wrangling with agensts, artists who worked on the score etc.

Below is an email I received from John Debney in October last year, which underlines this point. I made an enquiry about the complete score to DRAGONFLY:

"Thanks much for your response. No prob re the Cape. I would love to send you the Dargonfly score, however, it is the property of the studio that hired me and as such they would be less than pleased to know that the material is out there for sale.

I will check out the web site and appreciate your response.

And by the way, I often will send people signed cd's if they request them...

Warmest,
J. Debney"

See? He could not send it to me because it was owned by the studio. However, he had in the past sent me other scores, including THE CAPE, as he had established ownership of that score.

What many people fail to realise is how easy it is to get rare scores. Simply writing letters to composers directly is one way to start - this is the way I started, before I became involved in the industry itself.

With regards to bootlegs - I think a distinction needs to be made here. If I receive an unreleased score from someone in the insdustry or a composer, it is NOT a bootleg. A bootleg is something completely different. And as I'm sure people on this board can attest, there are good and bad bootlegs. There are bootlegs that have the most amazing sound imaginable and some that sound crap.

I very rarely deal in bootlegs as I have no need to.

serpico77, March 21, 2007; 11:03 AM

I'm sure Mr. Debney would no longer send you anything more, if he realized you were out there selling his work to people who really wanted it and appreciated it.

Yes, I have contacted composers and they have sent me promos and unreleased scores too. I've also had composers give me things and tell me that they did not want to see it show up on EBay. Christopher Young specifically told collectors he was giving them THE CORE because he wanted them to have it. I don't think he would have given it to you to copy and then charge people to get it.

I know for a fact that Jerry Goldsmith's FREUD was to be released on CD but was stopped because of the bootleg.

My only complaint with you is your trying to make what you do legit. If you are happy in doing what you are doing, then do it. DO NOT TELL ME TO ACCEPT YOUR RANTS BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING THIS FOR ME AS A COLLECTOR!

hammon, March 21, 2007; 12:03 PM

This guy Serpico sounds like Mother Teresa to me...
Doing nothing but good!!!

AGW, March 21, 2007; 12:08 PM

I never, ever chastised this fool for selling unreleased stuff, and he knows that. My point was simple, if you didn't want to sell to me, fine! You and I both know that I neevr made one post here or any other forum UNTIL you decided to vanish. What would any rationla thinking person do at that point. I feel no need to defend myself from you or anyone else here or any message board however; as much you can say I was childish and immature the same can be said about you. You claim about how unprofessional I am and yet your first contact with me states, not to discuss any dealings we may have on any message boards. Maybe that is how YOU do buisness but most reasonable people would never care, let alone make a statement like that. The simple fact is forgot the part about money, it is my time you watsed and that is just as bad. Regardless of what you have or don't, stop wasting peoples time!

joelfan71, March 21, 2007; 1:14 PM

Hey Serpico77... your overly long posts show signs of extreme psychological disorder. I don't have the time to read all of your lies but if I did, wouldn't be interested in wasting spare time on such a peculiar show of obscene mania.



victoravalentine, March 21, 2007; 3:58 PM

I wouldn't buy a thing from this damn fraud folks, as he is an obvious punk and lier.

And if I were to send money to someone like you only to find I've been taken... I would be tempted to travel to your doorstep (or your mothers most likely) and give you a good old fashioned Italian/American nosebleed (aka knuckle sandwich).

Involved in the industry my ass you Goddamned fraudulent piece of... (pardon my French).

victoravalentine, March 21, 2007; 4:47 PM

Agreed with all the replies here....Joelfan really comes across as very childish, immature, possessive ("I am one of only 3-5 people in the world who have this track")....and illiterate or uneducated. His post was chock-full of bad grammar and misspellings (Try using a spellchecker before posting, DOPE!).

kriegerg69, March 21, 2007; 4:35 PM

You don't mean joelfan71 do you?

serpico77 is the one who is doing the ranting. joelfan71 just posted what serpico77 said.

hammon, March 21, 2007; 6:39 PM

Aha, okay....Yes, that's what I meant. Gets a little confusing when people post a quote without quotes or some other such indentation to indicate what part of their post IS the quote. :-)

kriegerg69, March 22, 2007; 12:08 AM